17

Jump Start # 2018

Jump Start # 2018

1 Thessalonians 5:14 “And we urge you, brethren, admonish the unruly, encourage the fainthearted, help the weak, be patient with one another.”

 

Yesterday we took a look at challenges that face today’s church. In that Jump Start we addressed the special needs child, paying the preacher’s salary and finding the help to keep up with technology. There are other challenges. Greater challenges. People challenges. We will explore those today.

 

About our passage, listed here are the unruly, the fainthearted and the weak. There are reasons why some are like this. With the help Paul advised, these folks could change. The unruly could become a team player. The fainthearted could become courageous. The weak could become strong. People do not stay the same. We tend to put everyone in categories, with nice labels and then we keep them that way, forever. We do not allow the unruly to be cooperative. We will always remember how he once was. That sticks with us. The weak will always be weak to us. That not only isn’t fair, it isn’t something that we’d like others to do to us. We haven’t always been as we are. We’ve grown, changed and gotten better. People gave us a chance.

 

People challenges that churches face today:

 

  1. The volume of people. In many cities today, there are large congregations. This is fairly new. It wasn’t too long ago that one could count, on one hand, the congregations throughout the country that numbered around 300. There are many today. Those large sizes involve lots of people. Every person has a history, needs, baggage and trials and temptations that they face. Every one of them. Often, the shepherds of the church are so busy that they only deal with the train wrecks that happen. The teenage pregnancy. The divorce. The one arrested. The one kicked out school. The addiction. Major problems. But so many others may be headed for their own train wreck and possibly some could be prevented, but the number of people involved can be staggering.

 

What can be done? First, more need to see the valuable importance of leading God’s people. More elders. This takes time and sometimes there just aren’t any more. Second, continuing to teach solid, practical Biblical lessons about living for Christ. Teach. Teach. Teach. Third, you who are spiritual, restore such a one, is what we find in Galatians. More folks need to help out, get involved and have a voice that leads to Christ.

 

  1. The complexity of problems takes time. The parents with a prodigal who sits in a jail. Simply writing a card or sharing a verse doesn’t do all that they need. The young mother who, because of a divorce, is now struggling with jobs, bills, parenting all on her own. She needs help. Again, just a card or sharing a verse won’t do all that she needs. The grieving widow who is scared and alone for the first time in her life. She has to make some important decisions and again, simply a card or a verse doesn’t supply all that she needs. The complexity of issues and problems takes a lot of time. That is a challenge. The larger the congregation, the more of this is found. Long discussions. Multiple meetings. Many trips to visit. This is what comes with our fellowship and our love. When we look at our verse today, who would help the weak, encourage the fainthearted and admonish the unruly? Those who were spiritual. Pouring all the attention on the weak, leaves the unruly to continue his spiral downward. Ignoring the fainthearted because of dealing with the unruly may lead to their departure, permanently.

 

What can be done? Keep in touch is foremost. Open lines of communication. Share the load. Pray often. Try to look at every sheep. How is everyone doing? Don’t assume. Be efficient and organized and keep your ears open.

 

  1. There are some issues that we do not understand well. Mental illness is that way. Most of us do not understand it. Most would think, just don’t be that way. It’s not that easy. We don’t understand why a person needs so many meds for what they are going through. It’s hard to understand addictions, whether it’s alcohol, drugs, gambling, spending or porn. Most do not understand eating disorders. Most compulsive behavior is beyond our understanding. Just telling an anorexic woman, “Go eat,” won’t end her problems. Just telling a transgender teenager, ‘dress like a boy,” won’t end his problems.

 

This is an area that has always bothered me. There isn’t much in the Scripture about mental illness. Demon possession wasn’t the same thing. It’s hard to understand why someone is the way they are. It’s harder to understand what to suggest.

 

What can be done? It might help to find a professional counselor in the area that the elders can interview and have confidence in. One that is conservative in thinking and is pro-marriage. One that stands upon the Word of God. When difficult challenges come, elders and preachers can help spiritually, that is our field, but these other areas are beyond us. Suggest that they see someone that you have confidence in. Decisions have to be made about paying for it if the person cannot. Sending a person away without options, without help isn’t going to solve nor deal with any of these challenges.

 

There are many dysfunctional and broken homes in America today. People growing up in these environments often leave with issues and baggage that they carry most of their lives. Some carry these issues into their marriages and their parenting. It gets messy. It’s complicated. There are many who have been abused—verbally, emotionally and sexually. They carry fresh wounds. These problems include dealing with the past, forgiving, blame and moving on.

 

Leadership of elders and preachers need to study about people. Lessons in classes and sermons about forgiveness, family and love must be considered from where many are today. We are facing and talking about things that never were talked about two generations ago. You don’t read about these things in the old papers that brethren wrote.

 

A loving church would never send someone away because they are different or has issues. They will work with a person. They will help a person. They will point that person to Jesus. But realize, there is an air of challenges all around that person. Some in the congregation wish they would go somewhere else. Some may be suspicious and cold toward that person. Sometimes there are some bumping that takes place. Words are said. Just like kids at home, we need to be reminded that we are a family and no one is going anywhere else.

 

These challenges are tough, but we have to believe and trust the Lord. Greater is He who is in us than he who is in the world, is what John wrote. With God, we can do all things. The right love, with the Scriptures and good can be accomplished.

 

These are the challenges that we face today.

 

Roger

 

16

Jump Start # 2017

Jump Start # 2017

1 Thessalonians 5:14 “And we urge you, brethren, admonish the unruly, encourage the fainthearted, help the weak, be patient with all men.”

This passage shows us what things were like in those early churches in the first century. It reminds us that we are not all at the same place spiritually. Like cars traveling on a highway, there are some ahead of us, some beside us and some behind us. Different reasons and different levels of faith causes challenges for congregations. Paul was directing different kinds of spiritual help that was needed to meet these challenges. Patience, encouragement and admonishing were just some of the things that Paul was directing toward those internal challenges that the Thessalonians faced.

 

What challenges do congregations face today? Times change. Needs change. People have different challenges. What does today’s church face. Here are a few things.

 

  1. The challenge of the special needs child. Our school systems have done well to develop special ed teachers who are trained to work with and help the child who has unique learning difficulties. But we are missing that in congregations. Often, the Bible class teacher is a mom who has stepped up and she may know the Bible, she hasn’t had any formal training in education. With a special ed student in the class, she now becomes frustrated and discouraged because of the demands, needs and help that is often missing. The special needs child draws all the attention. He is a handful for the Bible class teacher. She doesn’t know what to do other than pass him on to the next round of teachers. But the learning that ought to take place, often doesn’t.

 

What can be done? First, the parents of the special needs child ought to explain things with the teacher and possibly even the elders. They ought to share what works and even offer to help out in the class. Second, many congregations have professional special ed teachers. Get with them and learn from their experience and knowledge. Too often, Bible class becomes a nightmare for teacher and students because of these challenges and no one knows what to do.

 

  1. The challenge of paying a preacher’s salary. There was a time when a congregation, numbering around 50 in size, could fully support a preacher. Salaries for all of us in America are much higher than what they were for the last generation. This includes the preacher’s salary. Every congregation wants a preacher. A smaller group has to realize that they may not be able to supply what a man is worth and needs.

 

What can be done? The first thought is for the preacher to find support from another congregation. There is Biblical pattern for this, but this is hard, tedious and very shaky. One’s income can drop in a month’s notice because of circumstances beyond his control. Supporting churches ought to make a year or two commitment when supporting and keep that commitment. Second, there may be a shift from what we term full time preacher to part time preacher. Smaller congregations may find men who are willing to preach but who also have secular jobs. These congregations must be flexible with their expectations. Sure in the ideal world, a church would have a preacher who is on the job all week long. But if a church can’t afford that, then they will have to make some adjustments. It is a challenge.

 

  1. The challenge of finding in-house media experts. Most congregations have men among them that can fix the building, do painting and odd jobs. But as churches become more and more advanced with technology, live streaming, websites, Facebook, Twitter, many congregations are coming up against a wall. No one knows how to do that stuff. Often it falls to the preacher’s lap and he is either so busy or he, too, doesn’t know how to do things. We are blessed where I am at with amazing guys who know so much about IT, media and software that we can do about anything we want. We are rare. Most congregations are not blessed this way. It’s a challenge. Today’s world runs on videos and social media. Does a church have to have those things? No. But many are realizing that there are great opportunities and wonderful ways to reach more through those avenues. I’m hearing more and more churches wanting to do things, but they don’t know what to do. They don’t have the people among them to set up, operate and fix the bugs that come with high end technology.

 

What can be done? First, be patient. Like a young couple getting married, they can’t have the things in their house that thirty years of marriage and working has provided in their parents house. Come up with a game plan as to what you want to do first. Second, seek out brethren from other places who may come and help you. If you do not have the people among you, find out who does. Be professional about this. Everyone has family and time is important. If you are borrowing a guy for a Saturday to set up your website, get your CD copy machine working, establish your Twitter or Facebook presence, pay the man! Use the talent you have in your area. Third, hire someone from a company to get what you need. Often, the outside world may not fully understand what you want, but work with them and you can get things rolling. Learn from others.

 

One of the things I have witnessed through the years is that often one person can do a certain job, but no one is ever trained by that one person. So, if that one person is sick, moves or dies, what he was doing stops. No one knows what to do. I have visited churches that had all kinds of great audio sound boards, CD machines and cameras, but no one there knew what to do with them. The preacher before sat it all up, used it and then when he moved, it sits, gathering dust. Train others. This is the challenge of legacy. You may know what to do and how to operate things, but you won’t be here forever. Read those Scriptures. We all have a divine appointment coming. Get others trained to do what you do so well. Work with them so they understand things. Let them see you do things. All of this involves forethought and that is a challenge as well.

 

Every generation and really, every congregation has their own unique challenges. Some of these challenges can cripple a church. Other challenges present opportunities and from that even greater things happen. How we deal with our challenges and what these challenges do to us can make all the difference.

 

Could you name the challenges your congregation faces? Are you aware of them? How are these challenges being addressed? This begins some valuable conversations.

 

Roger

 

 

28

Jump Start # 1796

Jump Start # 1796

1 Thessalonians 5:14 “And we urge you, brethren, admonish the unruly, encourage the fainthearted, help the weak, be patient with all men.”

I don’t understand why. That will be the heart of this Jump Start. Our verse today, specifically identifies three different spiritual states of brethren and the proper response to help them. Paul lists: unruly, fainthearted and the weak. Implied is a fourth state, and that is the spiritually strong who this passage is addressed to, who will be active in helping improve these brethren. There are different responses to each state that is listed. The unruly were to be admonished. The fainthearted to be encouraged. The weak were to be helped.

 

All of this reminds us that we are not in the same spiritual place. It also reminds us that “one-size-fits-all” often doesn’t work. Mixing things up here could really make a mess. If you encouraged the unruly, they’d go off even farther in their rebellion. If you admonished the fainthearted, you’d crush and destroy them. It is important to understand the condition that these hearts were in and the proper spiritual remedy that they needed.

 

This morning our focus is upon the weak. Help the weak, Paul says. The weak Christian. Weak isn’t a good place to be in for anything. Weak coffee is pitiful. Someone with a weak back won’t be much help come moving day. Someone with a weak stomach won’t be able to clean out old stuff left in a college frig. Weak eyes, can’t see well. A weakling, gets bullied and picked on. There just isn’t much to put in the positive column for someone who is weak.

 

Weak spiritually, is not a good thing. They will attend, but it’s more out of habit, family or guilt, rather than desire. Because they are weak, they are not thinking spiritually. They make wrong choices and poor decisions. They hang around, date and marry people that they shouldn’t. They do that because they are weak. They allow other things to come before God. The weak do not read the Bible much and worse, they do not understand it. The weak are on the outside, looking in. They do not engage in hospitality with the church family. They do not do spiritual things outside the church building. They are weak. When it’s time to look for deacons and elders, their names are never mentioned. They are weak. When it’s time to look for teachers, they are never considered, because they are weak. Some will remain weak for decades. Nothing changes. All kinds of opportunities are offered to grow and get involved, but they won’t be there. They are weak. They set the path for their children to follow. Too often, they will even be weaker and many will have no time or room for the Lord what so ever.

 

Here is what I don’t understand.

 

Why don’t they see that they are weak? They can look at others. They can see others excelling spiritually. They see others teaching, being appointed as deacons or shepherds and yet no one ever thinks about them. Do they see that? Does it bother them? They know others are coming back to worship on Sunday nights. They aren’t. Do they see that they are weak? Are they happy being weak?

 

Why don’t they do something about their weakness? Why don’t they come to Bible classes? The weak usually only shows up to worship once a week. They have done their duty, as they see it. They are busy with other things. Things, they feel, that are more important that their spiritual life. They hear and see all the great events that a congregation will put on, which are opportunities to learn, connect and grow. Yet, the weak won’t be there. Why? Do they like being weak? Do they like having a faith that really doesn’t do anything for them? Because they are weak, they struggle with sin often, worry and fear dominates them, and they really do not understand the difference between the Lord’s church and the denomination down the road. Worse, they really do not care to know the difference. One is just as good as the other. The weak couldn’t answer the simplest questions about faith. They don’t know. They don’t care that they don’t know.

 

Why don’t they see that life would be so much better if they were strong? So many of the things that they struggle with would be settled if they were strong spiritually. They would have confidence, assurance and hope if they were stronger. Their marriages would be better if they were stronger. Their outlook would be brighter if they were stronger. Yet, here they remain, weak.

 

Of the three conditions listed in this passage, unruly, fainthearted, and weak, it’s the weak that I don’t understand. It’s the easiest to improve. Every congregation has some who are weak, including the Thessalonians. We can point the fingers to the elders, the preaching, the classes, but at the end of the day, it falls upon weak hearts who are content to remain weak. Of the three conditions listed, unruly, fainthearted and weak, it is the weak that is the most miserable. Too much of the world is in them to be a strong Christian and just enough faith and guilt in them to keep them from leaving all together to return to the world. So there they remain, in no man’s land. Miserable at church and feeling guilty with the world. It’s time to get some help.

 

Why be weak when you don’t have to? Why be weak when there is a better way? Why be weak when it’s doing you no good? Why be weak when it’s most likely killing your family spiritually? Why be weak? What’s even worse, is when you pool a whole bunch of weak together and you have a weak church. I have seen such. Just close the doors and sell the property. Get on board with the Lord. Preach the word. Get serious. Pray deep prayers. Pump some encouragement into that stale building. Become alive or quit pretending.

 

I simply do not understand weak.

 

Roger

 

15

Jump Start # 1661

Jump Start # 1661

1 Thessalonians 5:14 “We urge you, brethren, admonish the unruly, encourage the fainthearted, help the weak, be patient with everyone.”

  In this one simple verse, the apostle Paul identifies the makeup of most congregations. There are four different states listed. They are not the same, nor do they demand the same response. Some are unruly, which means that they are rebellious, or out of step with everyone else. Some are fainthearted, which tends to be worrisome, unsure and lacking confidence. Some are weak, which implies that they cannot stand on their own. And, not listed here, but obviously intended, some are strong. Who else is going to help these other three groups than the strong. The fainthearted can’t help the unruly. The unruly is not going to help the weak. It is the strong that take on the role of trying to change the spiritual condition of the others.

 

Our thoughts today are upon the weak. Help the weak. This, as with the other words in this verse, is talking about a spiritual condition. Some have a weak heart. Others have a weak back. That’s not the thought here. It is weak spiritually. The weak spiritually struggle to resist temptation. The weak spiritually lack the spiritual fiber to stand on their own. You wouldn’t find the weak standing up to the Babylonian king in Daniel 3. No, the weak would have bowed down with everyone else. You would not find the weak defying the king’s order against praying as Daniel did. The weak would have stopped praying. And in Acts, when Peter was told to stop preaching, the weak would have stopped. Peter didn’t.

 

Help the weak. They need help in being guided spiritually. They tend to make easy choices, rather than the right choices. They tend to make decisions without considering the spiritual side of things. They choose a college without thinking about what their major will do to their faith or whether there is a congregation in the area. They will marry without even thinking about the spiritual side of things. The weak struggle with their attendance. They lack Bible knowledge. They are easily influenced by the wrong people and the wrong books because they do not recognize error nor dangers. The weak need help.

 

In those shows on TV that are filmed from Africa, the lion preys upon the weak. The strong are fast and watchful and can get away from the lion’s attack. It’s the old, the young, the sickly, the weak that become the lion’s lunch.

 

Here are some obvious thoughts about helping the weak.

 

1. The weak cannot help the weak. That doesn’t work. A weak, skinny guy in the gym can’t spot another weak, skinny guy who is trying to lift weights. That’s a sure disaster. The weak will give wrong advice. The weak are not a good example. The weak need help. They are not in the positon to help.

 

2. Every strong person started out weak. We all have been weak at one time. Some moved on and grew stronger. Others have remained weak their entire life. We all start at the same place. No one starts strong. We begin as babes in Christ. Many of us have had a huge upside advantage. We have been going to Bible classes and have surrounded ourselves with quality people because of our parents. That helped up immensely. Yet, we still had to learn and learn and learn. Everyone does. The strong can understand the weak, because the strong once was weak himself. The weak may never understand the strong.

 

3. The process of moving from weak to strong takes time. There isn’t just one thing or one lesson or one class that will do it. Like going to school, college isn’t possible without high school. Grade school is necessary for high school. One can’t write a college paper, until one first knows how to write. One can’t write until he first knows how to spell. One must learn the alphabet to spell. Education is a process or a journey. It is the same spiritually. Concepts and principles come after certain basics are understood. All of this takes time. Here in lies the problem. The weak often miss out. Because they are weak, they do not attend like they ought to. They get bits and pieces but not enough to move them out of the weak stage. They don’t understand nor have the internal motivation or drive to get there all the time. Imagine a student in school who comes about once or twice a month. He never gets it. It’s always a mystery to him. Certainly, because he needs to get all of the lessons so he can move on in depth.

 

This is where leaders of God’s church must put some serious thoughts into what must be done. Simply offering more and more classes at the church building seems great on paper, but if folks don’t come to all the classes, then the goal isn’t accomplished. It may be that the classes must be taken to the homes. Instead of hoping that the weak come, go to the weak.

 

A church full of weak members is nothing to brag about. The problems and troubles that come with being weak are many. There are a lot of messes that the weak get into. Powerful congregations have learned how to help the weak. Laying on guilt generally isn’t effective. The weak need attention. The weak need caring hearts that will be patient with them.

 

Help the weak. Help the weak become strong. Help the weak to someday be in the position to help others.

 

Help…can you do that?

 

Roger

 

07

Jump Start # 1326

Jump Start # 1326

1 Thessalonians 5:14 “We urge you, brethren, admonish the unruly, encourage the fainthearted, help the weak, be patient with everyone.”

  As the apostle Paul concludes his first letter to the young church at Thessalonica, he gives them a list of practical and helpful things to keep them going. Notice a couple of things from this verse.

 

First, notice the action words that Paul wanted the brethren to engage in. He lists, admonish, encourage, help and be patient. The chapter before ends with words that would help those who were mourning the death of the righteous. There, Paul tells them, comfort one another with these words.

 

These action words reveal to us that we all do not need the same thing. Some need encouraging. Others need admonishing. Others need just a little more time, patience. Still others need comfort. This tells us that we are not all going through the same things at the same time. Some of us are struggling, others are mourning, and still others, need a kick in the pants. The challenge of shepherds in the church is to recognize who is where. How disastrous it would be to admonish someone who only needed some comfort or encouraging. This is sometimes done. The results are not pretty. The wounded Christian feels crushed and abandoned by his own people. Instead of support, he received fingers pointing at him and rebuke. He cannot understand why they don’t understand. This reminds us that one size fits all leadership rarely works.

 

There is also the challenge for the preacher in these action words. Some sermons need to teach. Some sermons need to admonish. Some sermons need to be encouraging. Sermons cannot be the same all the time and the reason is, a segment of the congregation would not be helped if that were the case. Encouraging sermons are the easiest to preach. But that is not always the most needed item at the moment.  Preachers must understand that. To always admonish in your sermons makes the congregation feel that they can never do anything right. The preacher is never happy. He makes them believe that God is never happy. More, more, more, like the demanding high school coach, the congregation feels pushed and exhausted. Paul’s list includes patience and encouragement.

 

The second thing that we notice in this list is that the brethren were in different conditions spiritually. Look at the words again. Paul says that some are  unruly, some are fainthearted, some are weak. The list isn’t pretty: Weak Christians, fainthearted Christians, unruly Christians.  Implied in this list is that some are strong. If there wasn’t any strong ones, then who would do the admonishing, encouraging and helping?

 

Unruly has to do with obedience. Some are rebels. They will push the envelope every time. They need a string tied to their ankles because they are always go off somewhere where they don’t belong. The unruly need a good dose of Biblical authority. They need to understand that God rules. They must learn the pattern of the New Testament. Rebels become radicals which quickly become apostates if they are not taught. Admonish them. This doesn’t have to be mean, ugly or in your face. But there are out of bounds lines that they need to recognize. They must learn what God is like and what He wants. The wild at heart can be tamed under Christ. One of the virtues Peter wanted Christians to add to their faith is self-control. Pull your feelings, emotions and thoughts in. Line them up under Christ. Deny self, follow Christ. The unruly can be a challenge, but they can be taught. Admonish them.

 

The fainthearted reminds me of the cowardly lion in the Wizard of Oz. All the things he would do if he only had the nerve. And that’s the problem, there is no nerve. Afraid and fearful are the components of the fainthearted. Some faint at the sight of blood. Some faint at the first sign of trouble. Maybe not literally faint, but definitely not sure what to do or where to go. Fear is fed by weak faith. Fear leads to doubting. Eventually, the doubter drops out. Now, from the outside, it’s easy to see the unruly and the fainthearted as the same. Both quit. However, they quit for different reasons. Being scared and being a rebel are not the same. Paul’s words to those who are afraid is to encourage them. They need to understand that God is with them, even through the valley of the shadow of death. They need to remember that God is always on the throne. They need to know that tough times are not a time to go and hide, but to walk with the Lord. Encouragement is what they need. Build them up. Put some oxygen back into their souls.

 

The weak are yet different from the unruly and the fainthearted. Weak in faith is what is intended. Weak backs, weak minds and weak faith doesn’t do anyone much good. In the parable of the sower, the shallow rooted seedling soon withered away because of the blazing sun. There was no depth to it. The roots couldn’t reach down to the moisture that it needed. It dried up and died. The same happens to the Christian today. Weak faith is illustrated by poor attendance. Weak faith doesn’t think spiritually very often. Wrong choices, wrong friends, wrong results are what happens when one has weak faith. Again, the unruly and the weak may seem the same from the outside, but they are so different. Not understanding that will result in doing the wrong thing. The weak needs to be strong. There is one common way that happens, drink deeply into the word of God. Study. Classes. Sermons. Reading. Asking questions. Grow that faith. Use that faith. Turn the light on for the Lord. Help the weak. Be there. Support them. Show them. Guide them.

 

Patience with everyone. This includes the lists above and it also includes those not on the list. The unruly, the fainthearted, the weak all need time to grow, change and become.  Impatience will be the death of any group. The strong has to be patient. Sometimes they are not. Sometimes they get weary of having to help so many others. When we are not patient, we say things that we shouldn’t. We get irritated with one another. We get testy and it strains relationships.

 

The congregation Paul was writing to, the congregation that you are a member of, is made up of a mixture of people with all kinds of backgrounds, baggage and often, issues. We want a perfect church. You will not find it. Everyone congregation has problems. Every congregation has bright moments and dark secrets that it is ashamed of. Every congregation needs the Lord.

 

Paul’s words were not to drive off the unruly, the fearful, and the weak. They needed them. They could change. They could improve. Too many would rather have problem members leave. But the problem is, who is the problem member, or better yet, who is not a problem member. All of us are on this journey with Christ. We may not be unruly or fearful, but we still need help. We still need encouraging. We still need to be taught. We still need one another and we especially, still need the Lord.

 

Too many congregations bump and bruise and shoot their own wounded. That’s not only a shame, but it’s a violation of our passage today. This is not what Paul said. Help. Encourage. Admonish. Be patient. I expect more members drop off and drop out because of their feelings toward one another than what is taught. It’s hard to be a part when you are not accepted as a part. It’s hard to feel loved when you are not loved.

 

Each of us can do so much to help each other. Love, support, defend, teach and encourage are things that most of us can do. If we pointed the finger less at each other, if we gossiped less and encouraged more, the attitude and the atmosphere of most places would change. I met a young man from St. Louis a while back. His name was Ian. He had been bullied by friends and school most of his life. He hung around me a lot the week I was with that church. One evening he told me, “I just love this place. The people are the best. They accept me as I am.” I think young Ian was on to something there. I think that church was on to something. Instead of pointing out our differences, let’s highlight what we have in common. The top of the list is Jesus. From that, we build incredible relationships that make a difference spiritually.

 

We need each other. That was Paul’s point!

 

Roger